Poly Musings

[foxgrrl]

[I don't have a lot of time, so I'll keep this brief.]

Recently, several friends of mine [probably reading this now], and I, have been trying to figure out if we are officially dating or not. I'm currently in a relationship with Nyah [whimsywanderer], and I don't want to leave her, but society has taught me from birth to be insanely devoted to your only partner. And that cheating on your partner is the more horribly unimaginable crime ever — grounds for murder and divorce. Some of the other people involved are also in their own open/poly relationships, so it's ok for them to date me… But I still fear that I'm comiting some horrible crime against their other partners.

Comments

[shatterstripes.livejournal.com]

Well. If it's okay with her, and it's okay with the other person, and it's okay with their SO(s)... then the only question that's left is, is it okay with you?

Who will it hurt and how? Will it hurt if you just fall into bed with someone a few times? If they become a major part of your emotional life?

[two-pi-r.livejournal.com]

Oh. Exactly. I wish I knew how to put it in those words.

[shatterstripes.livejournal.com]

Simplicity is always hardest.

[whimsywanderer.livejournal.com]

For the record:

It is ok with me.
I am poly, I do have a boyfriend, and as far as I am concerned I do not consider myself in a 'relationship' with Foxgrrl. More like best friends.

Though it may sound it, there is no confusion or disagreement here. The parameters of the relationship are well understood by both parties. It's just complicated.

[veleda.livejournal.com]

it is definitely fine to date other people in my book.

society's christian hoohah.. should be thrown out. We can make an effigy to all that weird societal conditioning..and burn it on the playa. :)

luv
Sophia..

ps - will be at your place tonight..hope to see you.

[two-pi-r.livejournal.com]

Poly is given a fairly bad rap by many people, but if you can make it work, i've found that it's a whole lot of fun.

The only advice I can give is "worry about the other partners only if you have to." Not that this means to say "fuck you" to them, but try to enjoy the other partner's company. Resolve disputes immediately, the like.

[uncledark.livejournal.com]

If it's not against the rules, how can it be cheating?

What I have found works for me and mine is to get to know your sweetie's other partners socially. Hang out in groups. Become friends. That way, you will be able to see that they are not hurt or angered by your dating their sweetie.

In fact, I have found that dating someone but not becoming at least friendly, if not friends, with their other sweeties will eventually doom the relationship.

[solarbird]

If it's not against the rules, how can it be cheating?
dingdingdingdingWINNAH

For those who are new to this sort of thing or are just not very good at it yet, there are some obvious rules, like 1. Never lie. And also, 2. Never lie. And oh yeah, 3. Never lie. And "not lying" includes "not hiding things, either." Positive reassurance from the other people involved in whatever relationship graph might be created is also very helpful. Also is reassurance to your other partners that you aren't going away. So that means, yeah, you should get to know and hopefully like the other people involved indirectly, too, and you're gonna talk about all this probably a lot.

So. There. Relax. Don't compress feelings (good _and_ bad) and try to keep a rational bead on top of everything, if that makes any sense to you. Then? Fun and healthful! Recommended. But only if you can do all of these things.

[ivy]

I mostly agree with this, with the modifier that sometimes you just do end up finding your partner's other partners gratingly annoying. When that happens, I think the thing to do is to be polite when you happen to be in the same place, but to try to not schedule many events where you're forced to spend time with this person that you can't stand. That's just bad for everyone.

This is also going to shift some, depending on the dynamics of each particular relationship. Many of my friends that do the primary/secondary model have higher standards for "you must get along with my primary" than they do for "you must get along with this person I see every eight months". (I don't do primary/secondary, so it's irrelevant for me, but I've seen it a lot in other peoples' parsing.)

For me, basic courtesy is the low bar. It's best and easiest when everyone likes each other, gets along well, and becomes friends, but that's not always possible.

[roadknight.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, BTDT, unfortunately. It broke my heart to do so, but I require basic courtesy and politeness between partners, so I had to send someone packing under these same circumstances almost a year ago.

[ivy]

I think your "friendly" may be my "polite". (I don't like them, but I can be civil to them so as to ease social interaction.)

I have been in situations where I couldn't find some level of respect for my partner's other partner. That was awful, because yeah, it triggers a lot of tension between me and my partner. They will inevitably defend the other person, because clearly THEY see something worthwhile there if they're dating. (For that matter, I've had this happen with friends, too, where I hated their chosen partner because my friend was being treated so poorly and disrespectfully. Friend also inevitably defends chosen partner.) It basically cannot be argued with. In situations like that, I have largely found that I have two choices. 1) Shut up, 2) Leave. I've never handed down a "them or me!" ultimatum, but I have several times left situations that I found untenable. When this sort of thing happens, I am generally the one to go, voluntarily or otherwise.

[sheekayt.livejournal.com]

Wow, you said pretty much everything I was going to.
But I'm posting anyway.

[chirik.livejournal.com]

Cheating /is/ bad. It's lying. It's breaking agreements.

The key to poly is open, talking, communicating - all contrary to cheating.

If it's agreed it's okay, and it's not done behind the back, it's not cheating.

[rackstraw.livejournal.com]

Did you post this on a poly community?

[kysh.livejournal.com]

"Relationships" as a formalized entity are entirely constructs.

People already beat me to all of the things I was going to say with regard to this entry, so I'll just revisit a few things: Don't lie, don't lie, don't lie. Don't hide, don't sneak.

Friends are friends, and sex is just a fun thing to do with friends. Everything else is separate. Social arrangements and social partnerships should not be artificially combined with sex.

Enjoy yourself freely, within reason.

-Kysh

Re: Speaking as a non-poly person

[axonfuel.livejournal.com]

Your analogy made me think of relationships in little browser tabs. :>

Re: Speaking as a non-poly person

[maradydd.livejournal.com]

It's not the world's worst analogy. One of the things I've discovered in my poly relationships, with enochsmiles and others, is that while love may be an infinite resource, time and attention are not. Sure, there are times when all N people in a relationship will spend time together / have sex together / whatever, but in my experience, that's generally not the majority of the time. (Maybe there are some people for whom it does work out like that. I'm not one of them.) So it can be difficult to manage one's time in such a way that one's partners aren't feeling neglected. (I suspect this is even more of an issue in V-shaped relationships, where the two ends of the V are only involved with the centre point.)

Taken to the extreme, this can sometimes lead to situations where one is poly in principle but monogamous by dint of not wanting to hurt a potential other partner through inability to commit one's time. (I find myself in this situation at the moment, but I've also brought it on myself by way of a completely fucking insane work/travel schedule.)

Re: Speaking as a non-poly person

[ivy]

I second this. Time and attention are the limiting factors for me, for sure. I also need big chunks of time for personal solitude, my interests, and hobbies. I become queen bitchy if I don't get them. I have to carve out another relationship's worth of time for myself. I am unlikely to ever be one of the folks with six girlfriends... I just don't have the bandwidth. (I admire people who can do it successfully, but I am time-division multiplexed over a relatively few number of channels. [grin])

I think it's a mixture of knowing yourself, what you can and cannot deal with, and communicating with your partners to make sure that you're all on the same page (or at least in the same chapter).

Re: Speaking as a non-poly person

[maradydd.livejournal.com]

I am time-division multiplexed over a relatively few number of channels.

FTW and I am stealing this.

Re: Speaking as a non-poly person

[ivy]

[laughs] Have at it; glad it amused.

Re: Speaking as a non-poly person

[axonfuel.livejournal.com]

*avoids prurient joke about seeders*

[sezjasaneh.livejournal.com]

I didn't know you and Nyah got together. Congrats!

That said, as long as everyone involved knows what's going on and is ok with it - including your lover's partners, your partner, etc, and you're all being safe about it, I don't see the issue. Be open, be honest, and keep the old religious sayings in mind - "Have only as many [partners] as you can take care of. If you can only provide for one, then only have one." Essentially, how many people can you show enough love and care as is required of a partner in relationships? If it's only one, don't do poly. If it's more, then again - as long as you got the openness/honesty/communication/safety thing going - go for it!

[kitten-goddess.livejournal.com]

I am so happy for you both! Congratulations!

[centauress.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I don't think being monogamous is really any simpler... You still have to be open, honest, and trust, and set ground rules for what behavior is and isn't okay, and what needs permission ahead of time - be it going out with buddies or sleeping around the internet.

I'm not sure I'd be even in a relationship if it weren't for how much I get along with my spouse.

[roadknight.livejournal.com]

Everybody else has pretty much said what I was going to say, but it's so important I'll say it again.
1. Answer the question of how it feels to you and Nyah, rather than how it feels to society.
2. Don't lie, don't omit, don't "protect", don't "forget". Communicate, communicate, communicate.
For me, telling everybody involved out to the second degree(partner's partner) has worked well for me.Sometimes P^2s don't want to know what their partner is up to away from them, but then again that brings us around to communicating again.

[soquili-gitli.livejournal.com]

Most poly folk I know still ask themselves these questions periodically. I honestly think that by asking these questions, you're proving that you're emotionally mature enough to manage such a lovestyle.

I'm still really getting used to being in love with multiple people myself, honestly.

[fishy1.livejournal.com]

Wow, i totally missed the poly advice boat here.
Pretty much ditto the above. Good stuff.

Relationships should be defined by the people in them, and explained to observers only if you feel it necessary. If y'all feel you are in a 'dating' arrangement, then you are.

Supplemental reading i have found helpful for myself and new-to-poly friends:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/polyamory/faq/
http://heartless-bitches.com/rants/elise.shtml

[trema-slo.livejournal.com]

One polyamorous friend told me something brilliant (I think). "Some people are polyamourous, some are monogamous. I don't require either from my lovers". I like that statement a lot.

[oygevalte.livejournal.com]

I was going to reply to this, after readin the posts of the others, but the text is so small I can't even make it out with a magnifying glass. :/

My take, in any case, is that people are responsible for their own relationships. If they are dishonest or otherwise fuck things up with another mate because of how they handle being with you, that's THEIR fault, not yours. You trust and respect those people enough to let them make their own choices about handling their own other relationships, and if they don't, how is that your fault? Their responsibility level is not your bailiwick.