What's wrong with Europe?

[foxgrrl]

If you're an American reading this, and you've never been to Europe. What are some of the bad things/stereotypes you hear about it? I've heard some Americans go on and on about how Europe is such a horrible place, and how to USA is superior in all ways and crap like that. But I can't remember any specifics right now; So someone tell me something specifically bad about Europe. Like, hypothetically, if I was going to move to somewhere in Western Europe for the next several years, how would you talk me out of it?

[So far, my experience here is that everything really is better in Europe than in the US.]

Comments

[gesundyke]

I've heard some Americans go on and on about how Europe is such a horrible place, and how to USA is superior in all ways and crap like that.

most of the people who talk like that are suffering from a craniorectal inversion.

[ravenbait.livejournal.com]

As I live in Europe I'm dead keen to know the answer to this!

[ilcylic.livejournal.com]

Firearms ownership is significantly more difficult, to downright impossible, in Europe.

But, honestly, not necessarily any more difficult than where you already live.

And, of course, you may not care. It would play a significant role in my contemplation of the notion.

[gomezkitty.livejournal.com]

Nothing wrong with Pomme Frites

[t-bellwether.livejournal.com]

Well, when last I was in Copenhagen the air was practically blue with cigarette smoke, but it's really a coinflip as to whether that bothers a person or not. And that was just in the downtown, the rest of Denmark is beautiful.

[hep.livejournal.com]

everything is better in europe. i cant wait to move back.

[neonbunny.livejournal.com]

I lived in Germany for 9 years. It was fine. Sure, they speak a different language. And there's good people and bad people, we get that everywhere.

But for me the biggest thing was, I am American. I got roots, I have history, I have a culture. No matter how long I would have stayed in Germany, I would have been an American living in Germany. I had to get back to my roots, my country, my culture, my people. There's no logic to it, it's just something about who I am, what I am.

[neokyoneko.livejournal.com]

Stay there if you can, don't look back! At least until America has credibility, again.

[djmermaid.livejournal.com]

europe is expensive. fresh produce in particular costs more (though eating seasonally would help a great deal). lots more people smoke (at least compared to california) and they let 'em do it pretty much everywhere. that last one is the biggest deterrent to me, but I am especially allergic to cigaret smoke. oh and there are fewer cons and no burning man! ;-)

beyond that, you are going to have to pick a country and possibly a city to dis, as Europe has a lot of variation.

[sophiaserpentia.livejournal.com]

The stereotypes i'm familiar with, as an American who has never been to Europe, are that French people will be rude to American tourists, and Italians are gropy and misogynistic.

[evelien.livejournal.com]

The French are rude to everyone.

raves and conventions != europe

[bikerwalla.livejournal.com]

Get a backpack and travel in your destination country for a month. Stay in B&B's every night. Better yet, rent an apartment. Eat the local food. Talk the language and get to know the locals. Get into the economy, the social structure, the flow of how you live there, before you make the decision to come back and get the rest of your stuff.

How would you prove your income is high enough to emigrate?

[3ricj.livejournal.com]

been to europe many times. Western EU is just expensive.... that's the only major problem I have with it. Eastern Europe is pretty nice...

I say: Go move, don't look back.

[circuit-four.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't seem to have as much trouble as other people coming up with issues here. :) And I'm afraid it's not lack of credentials -- many of my negative impressions of Europe came directly from my history advisor at Case Western Reserve, who was a pretty liberal and tolerant guy, but also had to spend a good 10 or so consecutive summers dealing with Germans. :D And loving it, of course -- but unlike so many disgruntled American liberals these days, he had NO romantic notions about the European civilizations, having had the dubious pleasure of knowing exactly how they got there... :> He loved Europe, and I'm sure I'll find much to admire when I finally visit, but I think it's just as naive to put Europe on a pedestal as it is to put the USA there.

1. Good god, the driving conditions. To anyone who wants to dispute this, I submit two words: "Magic Roundabout."
2. Rather virulent racism -- yes, compared to the USA, especially in Central Europe and especially towards Turks.
3. Absurdly high barriers to immigration.
4. Ubiquitous tobacco smoking. (4½ is "Dutch people mix tobacco with their cannabis, WHAT THE HELL, PEOPLE?")
5. Greater acceptance of censorship (e.g. bizarre German laws about violence in video games)
6. Comparative proneness to risk-aversion, formality, and complacency (e.g. my advisor's requests to be called "Ken" were politely ignored; instead, hosts and colleagues insisted he was "Herr Doktor L******" -- granted, this was the 1970s)
7. More, more intrusive, and more inflexible bureaucracy than the United States
8. Soccer hoodlums. I live amid freakin' Red Sox fans and I'm still more scared of soccer fans. :)
9. Comparative lack of wilderness and natural space (e.g. my advisor would astonish European friends with stories about seeing deer in his backyard)
10. Jerry Lewis, David Hasselhoff not relegated to correct level of inconsequence
11. epic roadtrip possibilities are pitiful compared to North America and Australia (unless you're Julio Cortazar)
12. unhealthy love-hate relationship with America and its culture (We hate your foreign policy but please keep up the free defense! We mock you culture but please keep sending your movies and television!)
13. not nearly as superior at geography as they like to think (I've had more than one "Oh, you have an aunt in Iowa? I have a penpal in Cincinnati!" experience)

And before I get dogpiled by angry Euro-romantics -- I could rattle off a list of good things about Europe with far less effort: longer vacations, fewer prisoners, registered partnership laws, more agnostics and atheists... Meanwhile, I had to work a bit to complete the list above -- and some entries are admittedly tongue-in-cheek. But the USA does have some things to recommend it and I'm in no hurry to leave.

[ravenbait.livejournal.com]

Fascinating.

There are, as far as I know, only two "magic roundabouts". One in Swindon, the other in Hemel Hempstead. Or is it Welwyn Garden City? I can't remember. But don't let that put you off your stride. Just a point of note.

(I live in Scotland. We don't have any magic roundabouts.)

[mikeys.livejournal.com]

Well, if it's the UK I would say "rapid decline into panopticon nanny state", but otherwise the only downsides I can think of are that most cities in Europe are a lot less freak friendly than the SF. That of course, is a relative statement. Spain, Italy, and the UK would be low on my list of countries to live in. Any of the Scandinavian/Germanic countries would be higher on my list.

[sezjasaneh.livejournal.com]

well i love Europe so..but being realistic? As in, some stereotypes having merit?

I wouldn't live in France. Delicious food, but unless you speak perfect French, people there are real jerks (note: this is mainly in Paris though, which is why even the other Frenchmen hate Parisians). Also, strikes ALL THE TIME, so nothing is ever working %100 of the time.

Germany...ok, I love Germany :) Everyone is super nice there, majority speak English, and the history is pretty impressive. Erm...lots of taxes?

Eastern Europe - rich, rich, rich in culture. Also, very very dirty and cold.

England - they eat Yorkshire pudding and haggas and are pompous. *laugh* Oh, actually something serious - frippin' expensive!

So in essence, most places in Western Europe are wonderful, with the usual ups/downs every country has. only thing I could think of is get ready to get a LOT of shit for being American, and get ready to defend yourself (for just having that citizenship) in arguments. Most of Europe (justifiably) thinks we are a bunch of ignorant (because we know nothing of the outside world), stupid (look at the litany of reality tv show - oh yeah, and 'news' we export), and rude (know how Japanese are always taking pictures? We do that plus complain about why no one speaks English, leading to the classic "Do. You. Speak. English-o?").

[bovil.livejournal.com]

look at the litany of reality tv show - oh yeah, and 'news' we export

Sure, I'm going to nitpick...

The current wave of reality TV (whether reality-documentaries or "reality" game-shows) have their genesis in 1990's British reality TV. The shows that launched the great American reality show success were redevelopments of British shows.

[bovil.livejournal.com]

Three words:

Eurovision Song Contest

You get to decide whether that's good or bad.

[varaviksne.livejournal.com]

1 ) Socialized health care. Sure, it's nice when it is working for you. However, when the system deems your needs unworthy, it may be difficult to self pay for a prescription or doctor appointment.

1a) No compounding pharmacies.

2 ) Someone already mentioned the cigarette smoke.

[maradydd.livejournal.com]

it may be difficult to self pay for a prescription or doctor appointment.

N.B.: a doctor's appointment here costs 20 euros if you don't have insurance. With insurance, you get all but a euro-fifty of that back.

My two Eurostereotypes...

[helen99.livejournal.com]

1) I have heard that if your heater (or any major home appliance) breaks in the UK you have to get on a waiting list and it can take months to get it fixed.

2) I've also got the impression that it could be difficult to get medical treatment unless you are firmly ensconced in their system, and even then there's a waiting list in many cases. The terms "Socialized" and "Waiting List" for some reason seem to occupy the same brain cells. I'm actually not sure why. I'd be glad to hear that I'm entirely wrong, since there's no logical reason why I think these things.

Re: My two Eurostereotypes...

[ravenbait.livejournal.com]

I have heard that if your heater (or any major home appliance) breaks in the UK you have to get on a waiting list and it can take months to get it fixed.

First of me hearing that.

And the waiting list phenomenon tends to be to do with serious cases that require hospital referral. I can usually get a doctor's appointment same day.

I would make the observation that one country does not epitomise Europe. It's a collection of different sovereign nations, with different laws and very different cultures. So UK stereotype != Eurostereotype.

[anaisdjuna.livejournal.com]

Lived there for 5 years....

What's wrong with North-Western Europe? The weather!!!!!!

Grey.
Cold.
Rainy.

It blows and sucks in equal proportions. It gets under your skin. There's something to warmth and sunshine that I vitally need. Grey. Doom. Rain. It gets to me. I'm not one to suffer seasonal depression either. Also, that climate is in the personality of the inhabitants. Compare talking to someone from Africa or Jamaica. It's a world of difference.

If you're going to move somewhere do Spain or Italy. Somewhere mediterranean where there is heat and sunshine.

Also, I prefer the spicier folks. Belgians, Germans, Dutch... no thanks. They value cold stoicism in demeanor. Meh. Not for me thanks! I *NEED* passion in my neighbors, friends and lovers. (case don't ask me what i'm doing in conyers georgia) I used to refer to Dutch people as 'flatliners' like from the movie... people with no heartbeat or pulse.

They are wonderful people... don't get me wrong - well Belgians and Dutch people anyway - Germans fluxuate much more widely on the big ass generalization scale.

French people are cool & hot, but they can be a group of pedantic, picky, bitchy pains in the ass.

Another thing might be that it takes a long time to make friends there. (naturally your mileage would vary). Euros tend to stick to the friend's they've had all their lives and some can be hard to reach. That said... it's not impossible. I definitely wouldn't recommend moving to Switzerland for that reason.

Depends on where you are considering moving in terms of language. I hated Dutch. It's really freaking ugly as far as languages go. The structure is antiquated to my ear and the sounds are hideous. I spoke it to be polite to old people and people in shops; as well as to fend off the disrespect one gets just for being American (still better than being German tho). However, I could not bring myself to turn the poetry of my thoughts into that hocked up loogy of a language, and I *Like* learning languages. I would go to study it because I lived in NL and I'd open the book and be excited about working my brain & then I'd be like oh no please god no. I'm shocked by how much I speak when I go back because I never studied it.

French, Spanish, Italian... yum! Esp. Italian! I'd love to learn Italian and live in Italy. Italy is GORgeous!!!!

Sexism is done strangely there also. The temperature rides sort of in tandem of the climate. The hotter the temp the hotter the macho. I've not decided which is worse. Cold, straight out of the gate dismissive macho or hot, in your face, unabashed, stare at your ass macho..... Prolly the cold stuff. I do hate the cold.

The biggest thing is the weather. But yeah, you're right. Europe totally rocks. You can ride your bike there. The food is better. Friendships are deeper when you make them. The stores close at weird hours, but that's doable. The bureaucracy has to be seen to be believed though it's not Russia thankg GAWD. The customer service sucks pretty hard. The immigration laws blow, but I'm sure with your rad hot 'puter skillz you can circumvent that easy.

Go there and hang for a bit and see what you think....

[ff00ff.livejournal.com]

Europeans don't have enough jingo, by jingo!

[trema-slo.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't try to talk you out of it. I'm sure, from talking with others, that it would be an experience of great worth. I would want to try to come visiting. I still have the damned passport issue though and would need to deal with that, as you've shown it can be dealt with.

[kitten-goddess.livejournal.com]

Most of the things I've heard about Europe are quite good. For instance, national health care, far more enlightened and educated and progressive citizens, and better public transit systems.

I've also heard the usual nonsense about Europe being "godless" (whatever that means) and "socialist." (I actually think socialism is a good thing, provided the country is a democracy.)

The two bad things I've heard that really scare me:

1. There is no First Amendment. You can go to jail for years for saying stuff that is deemed "hate speech."

2. Europe is beginning to letting fundamentalist Muslim immigrants dictate state policy (seeting aside certain areas to be under sharia and stuff.) NOTE: The "fundamentalist" part of that scares me, not the Muslim or immigrant parts.

Please note that I have only heard these things. I don't know whether or not they are true.

[tlttlotd.livejournal.com]

The stereotypes I usually hear are that Europeans are a) all socialists, b) all communists, c) have horrible medical care because it isn't privately run, and d) are slackers because they get more vacation days than we do.

[yetanotherbob.livejournal.com]

Odd question, but it's less a US/Europe thing and more a Silicon Valley/not SV thing: What's the technology like there? I mean, given that all the hard drives, CPUs, Video chips, and the majority of operating systems are designed (if not built) on the US west coast, it's hard to imagine anywhere else having as much access to parts and such. Also, I've heard that the cheapest way to buy a computer system in europe is to fly to NY and buy it there, then fly back.

[spider88.livejournal.com]

I had heard only the best things about Europe (other than the weather) growing up. Now that I've grown up, I think the worst is that sexism and racism is far more pronounced (it's here, just more hidden in shame), and the UK has gone totally wacky with their surveillance and interference with people's personal lives. Also, no one is going to like me saying this, but it's true: They are more tolerant of Muslim immigrants bringing their egregious sexism (ie, beating and murdering girls women) with them.